Breaking into the people profession

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hi everybody i'm going to get us started i can see that people are still coming into the uh into the virtual room but um i want to
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want to keep to time if we can happy new year although perhaps it doesn't really seem like it
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i hope everybody managed to have a restful break and that you're coming into 2021
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with a little bit more energy than you left 2020 my name is katie jacobs i work for cipd
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and i'm delighted to welcome you to this new webinar series from us at cipd
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and we're going to spend the next couple of months focusing on all things careers providing
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you with the practical advice tips from experts and people who've been there about how you can build a fulfilling career in the people
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profession whatever stage you're at in this first session we're going to be exploring
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early hr careers so particularly how you can break into the people profession so that might be finding your first job
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after studying or it might be moving into hr or lnd or od or any of the wonderful areas in the
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people profession from a different area and joining me to discuss this topic and to offer their pearls of wisdom i'm
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joined by a fantastic panel i'm just going to introduce them very briefly but when we come onto the discussion they will give a much more
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fulsome introduction about themselves and their careers and their experiences so we've got natalie ellis natalie is an
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hr consultant she's also the author of a new book launch your hr career so she's perfect person to advise you on
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doing just that the lisa boley williams is an employee relations part business partner
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at a tech firm she's also the founder of a network called black and hr which supports black people
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professionals rakhi patel raki is a global people and culture business partner
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the barclays account at iss and she has plenty of global hr experience within the hospitality sector
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and last but not least and representing the um the male contingent of hr we've got
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matthew whitfield business director in the hr practice at the recruiter hayes so he knows the
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ins and outs of the recruitment market and is really well placed to offer lots of advice there
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thank you very much everyone for joining us this afternoon um i just want to run through some housekeeping quickly this webinar is
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being recorded and it will be available on demand after the session and my colleagues should put it in the in the chat where you can find it
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um there are no slides apart from the ones you're seeing right now once i'm finished with the introduction we're going to be running it as an
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interactive panel session and because of that that means we need your questions so please do get them in from the start
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if you'd like to ask questions of the panel can i ask you to use the q a tab which you can see at the bottom of your
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screen please use the chat function if you wanted to gather if you want to share
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any just kind of thoughts or ideas or experiences but if you want me to see it and to put it to the panel then please put it in
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the q a instead and a reminder that if you want everybody watching this webinar to see
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your points in the chat you need to set it to the all attendees and panelists function
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i want to make you aware of our great cipd resources around careers we have a careers hub where you can
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access a host of brilliant interactive tools including a cv optimization tool we've also got our
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careers clinic on the cipd community and you can use that to put your questions um to get advice from your
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fellow people professionals and our amazing branch network which is a really really great way of building
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your skills and also your own personal network and as ever these are quite tough times
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and getting quite tough and grimmer as we go into 2021 so i want to flag our well-being
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helpline we're working with award-winning workplace well-being provider health assured to provide our
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members in the uk and ireland with free advice from qualified therapists and you can also access the my healthy
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advantage app via that and that provides a host of wellbeing tools designed to improve your mental and
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physical health and finally my final housekeeping point is um i want to flag this the first in a
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series of webinars designed to help you build your career in the people profession my colleagues will post links to the
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rest of them in the chat but over the next month or two we've got um another few coming out we've got one
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that is focusing on copd qualifications so if you do have any specific questions about that we'll be tackling that in
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february so let's get started getting your foot in the door can be the
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most challenging part of any career journey even if you have the skills and qualifications how do you get onto the
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first rung at the ladder particularly during such a tough period whether you're aspiring to enter the people
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professionals graduate or school leader or you're looking to transition from another profession it can be daunting
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and challenging to find that first role that best suits your skills and passions
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in this discussion our panel are going to share their own stories they're going to offer advice on how we can break into the people profession
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so please do get your questions in throughout as i would love to take as many as possible and also thank you for everyone who sent
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them in advance i have got those on my uh i was going to say sheet of paper but my virtual sheet of paper so i will ask
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those as well but i'd like to start by inviting the practitioners on our panel to share a bit about their own
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career journeys why did you decide that the people profession was one for you and how did you get started and
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natalie can i ask you to come in on that first hey good afternoon everybody thank you very much for having me here today
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so to answer the first point katie i actually started out as a travel agent
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um i was selling holidays for a good few years before i decided that i wanted
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a career i had no idea what that looked like i left school with business studies a
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levels spec specifically in travel and tourism so hr qualifications i had none
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um at all what i did was i really researched what i wanted to do
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and hr became the focus of of that and it was just somebody's flippant comments at work one day that
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said you are just meant to do hr you you need to do this so i was oh okay that sounds great
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hadn't considered it as a career before and yeah so i researched as much as
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possible looked into cipd qualifications but couldn't afford them because i was self-funding them so i
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decided well actually i need some experience before i start studying just to make sure i like
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it because what if i go into this career and i don't like it because then you've
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kind of set that that standard haven't you so i decided i'm going to apply for as many hr jobs
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using my transferable skills so i had excellent customer service skills selling holidays is real hard
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work by the way so having excellent customer service skills and building essential
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relationships was key to doing well in that job so i used my transferable skills
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i was very good administratively as well so i really strengthened that throughout
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my cv and i applied for i couldn't even tell you how many jobs i applied for at that particular
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point um and i got my foot in the door with um a very small company called walrus
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group at the time so i went to work for woolworths but it wasn't easy
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getting there in the first place but i have a feeling you're probably going to ask about that a bit later on um so hopefully that helps that you
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don't necessarily need to have that experience or the qualification to be able to get a foot in the door
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it's about motivation passion and drive thank you velissa do you want to share
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next good afternoon everyone um so
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i was working for john lewis in oxford street while i was studying history at the
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university of kent so no hr at all um
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essentially i really disliked being on the shop floor at john lewis and i started helping out
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in the back with holiday writers and things like that and while i was doing that i would overhear conversations that were related
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to hr and it kind of just sparked my interest and i was just thinking hmm like this sounds interesting like am i
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interested in this and um at john lewis there were a few people who
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had full-time jobs but also did john lewis on the weekends and one of those people actually said to
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me oh do you want to do like an internship a summer one in hr at the accountancy firm that i work at
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so i did so i was working at um john lewis on weekends and then essentially working for free during the
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week at this accountancy firm to just really see if i like hr
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and um i did but i was at uni so i couldn't really do anything about it
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and then when i was in my final year of uni i didn't actually wait until i graduated before i started applying for
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jobs so i was working at john lewis i was doing my final year of uni and then i got a hr
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administrative role for a company called nelson's that do rescue remedy and spa tone and things like that
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and um similar to natalie it was by my transferable skills of working in the back of john lewis and
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the internship that helped me get that role so then i was working at john lewis in my final year and then working part-time
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at nelson's as a hr administrator so i was doing all the things at the same time just to
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really see okay do i like this before i finish graduating and actually wanted to
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want to go into hr and um yeah i decided to stay at nelson's once i graduated and
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that's how i got into hr thank you and ricky ot hi everyone
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um so i started to study hospitality management and when i was starting to understand
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what that was all about one of the modules was about human resource management and and people and behaviors and i found it really
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interesting and so i started to talk to a few different um
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recruiters that would come to the university campus and ask them what it was like to work in
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human resources and a few of them actually said to me try and go out and get some
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operational experience first um and once you've got that under
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your belt you'll you'll start to see the impact that human resources has
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um more than me explaining it to you go and feel it for yourself first be on the other side
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of what human resources done in the does in the business and how they partner with people so when i graduated i actually
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wanted to jump onto a graduate program and so i applied to many and i didn't get an on any of them i got
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rejected from all graduate programs uh and i ended up applying direct entry
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i went online filled out an application for a receptionist for a hotel on parklane
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and uh i went into interview and i met the hr team and i thought oh that's a
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that's the job that i want um so i kept in touch and i started to do
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and learn the different activities that they would roll out and i started to
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say to them how can i help you roll out your activities um and it was actually keeping in touch
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with my university that and the network i started to build that there was a new role
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available an hr coordinator role in a different hotel down park lane and i thought oh you know could i apply
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for that so i started to my i started to do my application
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and i kept in touch with my teachers and i kept in touch with uh the hr at my current hotel and i said
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you know what what do you think this hotel would like to see i don't have any hr experience i'm just
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i've been a receptionist what can i do to to make sure i stand out
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and they said just be yourself and show them that you're hardworking and that you have a real interest for people and it started with
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when you started to study the subject and explain to them how you put the link together and that will show them your
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determination uh so i put in my application and i didn't hear back so i picked up
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the phone i called one of my mentors and i said well i've done what everything everyone's told me to do i've done it
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and i still haven't got a call back and i said well do you have a phone number is it on the
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website call them what's the big deal in calling them i said oh can you do that can you actually
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call if you put a job application in and of course all recruiters are probably going to hate me right now
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for their phones start ringing buzzing but it actually made the difference because i spoke to
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the hr manager and he actually said he was very busy uh and that he would email me and of
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course weeks went by and i didn't hear from him and i wrote back to him saying i'm more
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than i know you're a busy man i'd love to meet you at heathrow airport i've come to costa coffee can we just grab
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20 minutes and i was trying to show my determination and all the things that everyone had been coaching me to do
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and he wrote back look i just don't think it's going to work out and i said well you're making a big
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mistake and i wrote that back on an email and to this day i got the job by the way um and i spent five amazing years
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at that hotel company but it it was because i didn't stop i
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persevered um and if you really want a job if there's a job description out there
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there's something that you think that in your gut feels right don't give up there are so many different methods to
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um getting in touch with the company and selling who you are so that's how i broke into the
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profession it was my first hr roll as a coordinator and then i spent five wonderful years
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learning about the different areas of hr and the rest is history
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thank you and i hope that you would take that phone call now if somebody uh somebody may get to you right you you you really
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um matthew um i'd just like to come to you some opening thoughts maybe on what the um the state of the market is like the entry level right now are there
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any sectors that are particularly buoyant obviously we are still in the middle of a pandemic and an associated downturn
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what's it look like if you're watching this wanting to get into the profession thank you well um so i'm a business
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director for hayes hr i've been with hayes for 20 years and his last year has been the strangest
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recruiting market i've ever seen i think or witnessed um i think the market itself um
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i would say it's an improving picture actually i think um during last year was very much about
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different organizations adapting getting used to home working remote working and
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how the challenges are clearly hospitality retail um some of the supply chain
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organizations linked to those sectors are really hit and suffering i think at the moment and
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that's that's that's fairly obvious but it is causing ripple effects into other sectors
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um however we are seeing um very much a recovery so if i look at
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our job flow over the years very much like a v shape and as we go into um
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this year um with the vaccinations on the um horizon there is some light at the
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tunnel and i think a lot of organizations are really starting to um go into candidate attraction
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attraction mode in terms of thinking about what does the future look like and therefore what
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key hires do we need to make over the year um now that obviously makes an impact on
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two hr's requirements across talent acquisition [Music]
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training and development and hr generalist role so i think i think i'm hoping the the
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markets are going to continue to improve well certainly we are seeing that on a week on week on a
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on a global scale so hopefully that's good signs um i think in terms of sectors
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um throughout the pandemic we've seen public sector so local authorities
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universities nhs trusts um being very busy clearly the nhs
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at the moment is absolutely flat out you can't get busier than that at the moment
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also pharmaceuticals manufacturing organizations particularly manufacturing organizations
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that supply into pharmaceuticals and healthcare those those areas are quite busy um and
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also construction because the government is pumping lots and lots of money into construction programs and projects
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to stimulate the market we're seeing construction work and the back office functions for
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construction particularly also are busy and i think the hr sector in
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general we've seen requirements across different specialist vacancies
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um hr advisory roles some of the more i call business as
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usual roles start to come back because things like employee relations um
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was paused for quite a while whereas i think nowadays that now they're very much business as usual
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type roles coming back to the market and hr is fairly resilient because it helps
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organizations manage up and manage down and handle change and there's so much of that at the moment in
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the marketplace so so it's definitely a challenging market from a recruitment perspective but if
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there are there is opportunity um and uh and you know for i think for
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hr professionals trying to get in it is difficult um but there is there is opportunity out
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there thank you i'm gonna come to questions we've got quite a lot in already and i'm
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going to try and um mash them together into themes and you'll see how successfully i managed to do that
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um so i've got quite a few about how you get that first bit of experience so people who might have done some
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studying maybe they've even got a qualification but they're finding that work experience bit hard hard to get and i um nobody's
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put this in the questions but i imagine that might be even harder now that a lot of us are working working remotely
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so any advice on how to go about getting that first that first bit of experience
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if you've got some of the theory you've got some of the the kind of letters after your name even
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where do you where do you start where should you look um natalie or noddings i'm going to ask you first
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yeah i i think it it's a really like matthew's already said it's a really tough market out there right now so
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being able to stand out is something that is incredibly difficult to do so
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the starting point is always get your cv in tip top shape so whether you have
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that reviewed by a recruiter or a mentor or someone that can guide you um it does make
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you feel a lot more confident in your ability to be able to present yourself in the way that recruiters are looking
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for so when i got my foot in the door at woolworths as i mentioned before i had no
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qualifications i had no hr experience at all but um what i did present to
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the head of hr at the time i said hey look i don't have any hr experience granted i have no hr qualifications but
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i would like one um and what i actually want to do is to work with you and your
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team so that you can mould me to what you want i'm not going to come in with lots of ideas and to change
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reinvent the wheel that you've already created i want to work and learn from you you know you guys and
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she loved the answer so much she actually offered me the job on the spot which these days is unheard of
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but what we didn't know at that point is that two years or two and a half years after
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that that job offer um i was then thrust into a company that was placed into
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administration so i actually had a hard and fast lesson
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in commercial awareness very very early on in my career and i am
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so grateful that i got to experience that it was an absolutely awful experience and if
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something like that doesn't put you off hr you're definitely a lifer so it's very much
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you know we're seeing it with some really big companies right now um and if you look at the high street
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every single shop especially in town where i live has a you know a notice of appointment
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of administrations in the window it is absolutely right so to be able to
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stand out in that sort of market you've got to think about what do
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you have to offer not what does that other candidate have that i don't and you start comparing yourself that's
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when we get some really negative things coming a lot of people will refer to imposter
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syndrome it is rife in hr it doesn't matter what level you're at whether you're a director an administrator
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or like myself i own my own business you get it at certain points and if
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you're able to break through that and see what potential you do have you're then able to
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portray a confident you know a confident version of yourself where you do have
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something to offer i'm a firm believer that everybody has something to offer
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but also one key question i always get asked and i'm sorry katie if i'm taking
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up a bit of time but one key thing is do i have to go big
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do i have to go to a big company to demonstrate my skill sets absolutely not the best parts of my
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career really came from the small family-run business that i worked for on heathrow
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airport that was the breaking point in my career and that's where i really shone
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so don't always think that big is always better really research the job itself and if
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your gut instinct rocky did touch on this earlier the gut instinct i have had at woolworths
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was wow you know i really have to work here this is the place i want to be the
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culture's right the people are amazing you know the work i'm going to be doing is interesting and purposeful
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that's what i want to do i've worked in organizations where the job title has been fantastic but one person's business
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partner compared to another is very very different don't believe the job title myths
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because they are myths it's about the opportunity that you have and how do you
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actually feel walking into that business so yeah i hope that helps a little bit
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because you know your gut instinct will tell you so much thank you natalie and i think the job
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title one is an interesting one somebody has asked a question about whether whether it matters is it a is it demotion but
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like you say it's different for different organizations um lisa can i ask you somebody's asked about what qualities and competencies
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employers are looking for in hr professionals with with not no experience so if you were hiring into your team
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or giving somebody some advice on those more transferable skills that we've all mentioned um what what should you be pulling out
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on your cv or through interview if you don't have kind of in-house hr experience
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so first of all i think there's a cliche that you um if you like people you should be working
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in hr and um no that's not the case so
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i think um one of the things that i would look for um is nothing to do
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with actual people like that whole you know i like people because that's what people tend to say when they go to interviews
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and it's no you know that that's not really what you want to hear as a hr professional it's more about
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how you would deal with different human behaviors and how you would react in your approach and you know what sort of instinct and
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what initiative you would take and so it would be more around that i think if not all
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most hr professionals are very resilient so if you have any examples of where you have just
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demonstrated high resiliency that's amazing as well because like what natalie was saying if you're going
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through you know companies go through administration there's a redundancy even things like covid the way it's
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affected the way hr work and how we interact with people you want to see that people are resilient
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and that they can really stand up in the face of adversity when that happens in the company
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and also just being able to adapt and these skills don't necessarily come from
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just hr professionals if you can have them in any job so just examples of where you can
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you know show that you've adapted showed that you've been resilient show that you can you know take
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initiative and not always wait you can be quite reactive um because especially i'm in employee
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relations so a lot of my job is very reactive and so being able to show that you know
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you can kind of do things without a second thought but also being able to show that
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if i do need to take a second full it's okay just showing that autonomy
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um in an interview is really good brilliant thank you um rocky got a few
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questions about kind of generalisms versus specialisms and obviously hr and the profession is pretty diverse in
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terms of terms of different things you can do so from l d to dni to od to recruitment
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um what steps can people take to work out what is best for them and also do you think that it's wise to
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specialize early or would you advise kind of going and trying to get a bit of everything
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yeah um i was told early on not to be pigeonholed into one um and i didn't really
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understand what understand what that meant until i actually was in the work itself um so my advice
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uh having gone through the motions over the last 10 years is take your time there's no need to rush
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um roles are every day i created a new role yesterday uh i won't tell you what it's called but
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you know i've given it a new a new title and it's never existed before um and that's because roles are
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continually evolving so if you're trying and even that means our departments and the work that we do
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within hr is evolving so um if you are going to pick a specialism it perhaps needs to be
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a futuristic one where you're at the head of the curve because if you pick one that's a bit dated it might be obsolete by the end of the
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year it really depends which business you're going to work in um so my advice is go general first
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especially if you're new to human resource management really get to understand all of the elements that that make this
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function work um because if you want to support and um your your partners in in the business
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so finance or sales and marketing um you can't really go out there and support other people if you can't
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support your own function first and there's so many elements to what we do in human resource management
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i started by understanding how the different job roles within human resource
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management are by going online or approaching different companies looking at the job
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descriptions taking two or three that were of interest to me and getting a highlighted
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pen and highlighting over each bullet point of the key responsibilities things that i think i already know i can do or i've
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had some experience in and and then i got a different color highlighter and i
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you know went over it and said okay this is something i have no one no idea what this means and that's when
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i started to connect with teachers mentors or people that i was being interviewed by i'd actually asked
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them what does ess stand for because a lot of companies forget
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that people like us that are looking for jobs don't know what their internal lingo means
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and we might think it means something else completely different um so it was a learning curve for me
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to get to know all of the different functions the different responsibilities that each
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role plays in human resource management and then after i understood all of the elements i started to
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get involved with different projects and for me my my passion's always been with uh
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recruitment attraction um bringing in people talented people to serve and um deliver the
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vision of our company has has been my highlight of my career and supporting future
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talent to come into businesses because people took chances on me and now i get to take that on on them
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but again it's it's those that are going to be interested to go slow really understand what the roles
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are available to them before jumping at them uh and perhaps uh then and then burning out too quickly so
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there is there's a lot to be said between specialism and journalism um my advice is you've got the time so
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to learn what's out there and use the resources available thank you and matthew got a few
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questions specifically about recruitment um so uh
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one was how do you kind of pick the recruiter for you do you i guess do you sign up with a lot of them don't just say sign up with pays
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but how do you how do you choose the one that's right for you but also how do you get a recruiter to speak to you um
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someone says they've been trying for months and they're just getting violence they're not really getting anywhere yeah
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um certainly um breaking into hr when you don't have hr experience is one of the hardest
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trickiest there is to do so for me it is all about trying to get some experience somehow
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within an hr department and a couple of routes um or there are
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multiple routes from you know graduate schemes apprenticeships
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um internships um in terms of the recruiters and recruiting agencies um i
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actually do think that getting temporary roles temporary or bankrolls
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within organizations and it might not actually be an hr administrator it might be a
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administrator if you like within an hr department that gives you a
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um some fine footing to an organization what you'll tend to find is the
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specialist hr recruiters like myself we tend to deal with experience roles
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from um hr administrator upwards we tend to deal with that sort of level
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so it tends to be that we look for experience of hr you know career experience on people's cvs to be
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able to shift sift and work through canada applications so that's one of the toughest bits
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um but there are agencies and i would i would perhaps look at more generalist
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agencies more agencies for example office support who are clearly supporting your local
31:35
organizations um or local organizations near you where you can get a foot into into an hr
31:43
department because that is probably one of the critical experience areas you can you can get i think um uh
31:52
you can also look at organizations who perhaps have bank staff and sometimes you can find
31:58
that there will be roles advertised for for bank staff in in hr departments as well so for example the universities
32:05
the colleges um some of the large organizations so certainly you know recruiting
32:13
trying to find ways in is very very challenging but you can do it and there are people do
32:20
find ways in the only other thing i would say about trying to gain experience is
32:25
utilize all the avenues you can so um if you're employed perhaps in a like i
32:31
used to work for waitrose for example john lewis partnership again um and i
32:38
got a got an involvement with the hr manager on on at our branch and i was able to do
32:45
a bit of recruitment for example and that whilst it wasn't the same sort of recruitment i do now
32:52
it gave me some exposure and some experience to be able to talk about um albeit very limited if you like but it
32:58
was something and i think that's the thing you have to find ways um to demonstrate some experience around
33:06
the employee life cycle so i think in your cvs and in your applications and in your
33:12
interviews you have to demonstrate um some knowledge some understanding of
33:17
the employee life cycle recruitment training hr systems hr
33:22
information just so you understand how that all fits in but also what experiences you have
33:29
albeit limited that can you can hang on be able to talk about um and to show
33:34
your interest um so yeah that'll be my view uh my response to those
33:40
um can i ask um i'll i'll just ask you but i don't know if you've got experiences but have you
33:45
worked with recruiters when you've found jobs have you got any advice on engaging with them with recruitment
33:51
firms or have you always done it off your own back and well anyone can i guess kind of just come to you first
33:56
um so the first job i ever got in hr was via a recruitment agency so they really did help in terms of
34:04
giving me feedback on my cv and um even with sometimes
34:09
um well a lot of the time with recruiters they have relationship with relationships with the companies that
34:14
they're trying to place you in so i remember with that first and company that i had an interview with
34:20
they actually told me a bit about the hiring manager that who i was going to be coming face to face with which also helps because
34:27
it gives you an idea of um you know what the person is looking for the type of person that they are what
34:33
they might be as a manager so um i've always had quite good experiences with
34:39
recruitment companies um you know with hr there's loads of different hr recruitment
34:44
companies as well that are they um because they they deal with loads of hr professionals
34:51
um they're quite good at giving you know quite detailed feedback about hr specific you know skills and
34:58
qualifications that maybe if you went to a more general um recruitment agency they might
35:03
not be able to do so it's also it's always really helpful as well to go to specific hr recruitment
35:08
agencies thank you and we've got an awful lot of questions about people who are
35:14
trying to move into the profession and they're not um graduates or schoolies but they've
35:19
got to work in a different function a different area of business and natalie any advice on making a
35:27
sideways move and should you um consider or how do you deal with the fact that you might have to start at the very beginning
35:33
again and feel like you're going several rungs down to get into the profession yeah it is definitely a tough one i mean
35:41
we're all on this webinar series today one point i wanted to add to to
35:47
matthew's point was yes utilize your network we have a
35:52
fantastic branch network and one of the pivotal points in my career
35:58
was getting in touch and getting involved with my local cipd branch once i'd moved out of london
36:04
um because there is life outside of london a lot of people say there isn't but there's there certainly is um and i
36:12
got involved volunteering for the cipd i made a fantastic network and a lot of your strength is
36:20
understanding and building those relationships that are absolutely critical to securing the future success of your
36:26
career by surrounding yourself with the right people um there's i know in my branch that
36:32
specifically there have been um a number of people that have offered students jobs when they're studying
36:39
they've got no hr experience but they see the potential in those individuals and when it comes to me growing my
36:45
business later on this year the student community is the first place i'm going to be going to because i want to give people the
36:51
opportunities that they wouldn't necessarily get so yeah what if you are already in an
36:58
organization and like you said katie having to take cyborg step yes i actually had to take significant
37:05
pay cut to get into hr i was in a very good job where i was getting paid quite a bit of money for
37:11
what i was doing but i wanted the job so badly i wanted a career so badly that i said you know
37:17
what i'm just gonna have to budget for next few years whilst i build my experience and
37:23
whilst i study my level 3 certificate and personal practice as it was back
37:28
then so that's what i did and i did them side by side
37:34
but i was demonstrating that commitment um to be able to then move forward but the
37:39
strongest point that i have and what i still use very much when i'm dealing with my
37:44
clients today is my ability to relate to their business my commercial experience
37:51
is my strongest point it's also made me the most resilient because i've been
37:56
able to add value to businesses and sometimes i've had my i can't tell you how many times i've
38:01
wanted to walk away and said you know no i can't do this anymore um because there's so many doors that seem
38:08
to close but actually a lot of people say well you know we've got this training
38:14
on resilience building and all of this stuff resilience is developed by experience
38:20
you can research it you can identify with it but ultimately it's how we interpret it
38:26
and how we utilize our experiences that build that resilience so just make sure that you're taking in
38:33
everything around you that when i worked at circle express for example the last place i would go was my
38:39
hr office in the morning i was amongst my people i was in the planning office i was speaking to
38:45
drivers i was seeing what their day looked like i was speaking to my managers on the shop floor to
38:52
identify what challenges they had and by knowing that i was able to then
38:57
accurately respond so i was more proactive than reactive and hiding behind a screen all day
39:04
because often hr does get a bit of a bad rap with those sorts of things so you just sit in the office all day and
39:10
mess around with paperwork but actually if you're there to be able to connect with your people
39:15
you understand what challenges they encounter and then how you can help resolve that that adds so much weight to
39:22
a business and that what that is exactly what makes a good hr practitioner so i hope that
39:28
helps a little bit thank you um you mentioned there natalie and the kind of the importance of
39:33
networking and i can actually see people networking in the chat and adding each other on linkedin and rocky you've spent a lot of time
39:40
hitting the phones and i'm kind of making connections with people and you talked a lot about having mentors
39:46
how important is it to build that network from the very start of your career and where do you begin
39:52
it's it's crucial to um to to build a network of your own you
39:57
can't just i can't copy yours katie as much as i want to um so it's very personal um
40:03
and i think before you start to network with people you need to know about yourself first you need to be able to express yourself
40:10
you need to be able to talk about yourself um what your passions are why you get out of bed in the morning these are all
40:15
things you need to have already ready like your storyboard um
40:20
and so the way i do that and the way i work with my mentees at the moment is it starts with a swot uh i swat is
40:28
strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats and i i draw out the box and i do it for myself every year
40:33
since 2007 when i went to university i'm telling you my age now i've kept a swot and i've just seen how
40:40
my threats and opportunities have evolved into my strengths and opportunities so
40:45
there's a lot to be said there um once you know who you are you can go out to different people and connect with them
40:52
and say hi i'm rocky so when people add me on linkedin or when i go to people and add them i
40:58
tell them a bit about myself it's not just send a connection it's hi i'm rocky i'm moving from hotels into
41:06
this new world of facilities management where i am now um i don't actually know that many people
41:12
in our hr function i'd love to connect and brainstorm and share best practices
41:17
and that kind of gives the person receiving my invitation a little bit more context why i've just sent them a random request and we've never met
41:24
before um and and going back to me reaching out just random strangers uh and putting myself it on their radar
41:34
if you're looking for a job or if you're and you're trying to get into human resource management for the first time
41:40
and and segue over go think about the companies that you'd love to work for
41:46
i knew i wanted to work for iss so i went on to iss i went on to linkedin and i looked at
41:51
people connections and i didn't have any so i looked at someone that's doing the job that i'd love to do
41:57
and i wrote to them i wrote to another hr business partner in iss and said you know what is your role entail what
42:03
do you do every day uh can we have a quick chat uh i i got a message back saying yep are
42:09
you free to connect and then we have a quick chat and those are things that are in our control
42:14
every one of us can do that um so think about that before sending a
42:19
blind invitation to connect on linkedin let them know why you're connecting with them um
42:27
uh i don't know katie is it is there anything more specific you'd like me to go into okay that's brilliant and i can see that
42:34
everybody's kind of connecting with i'm sure all of you will have loads of connections when you lose a connection request when we come off this webinar and and
42:40
lisa because you run black and hr and we've got a few questions from black people professionals about getting into professional moving on in a profession
42:47
have you got any advice um for the group that you work with particularly
42:54
you need to unmute yourself yeah um so everybody has their you know
43:01
their hurdles their obstacles that they have to get over in order to break into any
43:07
profession let alone the hr profession and when it comes to black and
43:12
hr professionals the advice i always give the community is use your difference to your advantage
43:19
and that goes for anyone whatever it is that's your unique selling point use it to your advantage i
43:25
always say that you know whatever experience you've had in life whatever and you know wherever you've
43:31
worked the people that you've interacted with it will shape how you view the world so don't be scared to
43:38
you know answer that interview question how you think you want to answer it because chances are the person sitting opposite
43:44
you is not thinking how you're thinking and probably you know that cognitive diversity is really
43:51
important and it doesn't just come with you know um race it comes with a whole variety of
43:56
reasons as to why people think differently so i think you know to kind of have the courage to
44:01
speak and think how you think it's supposed to be that's that's okay and the other thing i
44:07
would say is um as everyone's been talking on the panel is to be proactive about networking
44:14
outside of your usual as well to help with you know hr i think i even heard it on the cipd
44:22
panel is um 66 white women um in the hr profession so it's good to
44:28
kind of get out of your comfort zone and just mix with other networking groups like even if you're not black it doesn't mean
44:35
that you can't um follow black and hr on instagram or wherever it is just to see
44:40
how a different community is thinking because you never know you might be working with that hr professional and
44:46
vice versa and you know from black and hr that's how i connected with katie so
44:51
and you just never know so i would just say just just be yourself essentially and just know that um you
44:58
know your mind is unique and whatever you say it doesn't mean it's necessarily the wrong thing it's just different
45:04
thank you um we had a question that came in advance about um somebody who'd done a job interview
45:12
via biozoom and they were feeling quite confident and then they they did the interview and uh kind of
45:17
uh fell apart a little bit and wanted some advice on how to best sell themselves um when doing everything
45:23
remotely and matthew any kind of best practice advice on how to to do well in a remote outcast world
45:31
well obviously remote interviews is the um the current thing and i think it's
45:36
here to stay though uh remote interviews um because of ease of access for people to see people but um
45:43
yeah i think i think interviewing is is one of the challenging areas that all hr professionals face even at
45:50
the more senior end it can be very difficult i think the the key um to interviews is
45:58
thinking about your audience um and preparing yourself um to who you're going to be meeting so
46:06
i first thing i will say is do your research so research research research
46:12
look at the people strategy what the organization if the organization demonstrates any
46:17
people strategy on their website um look at they might have more information about the hr department you
46:23
can use linkedin um so i think it's trying to understand a bit about
46:29
the work the organization the the workforce what their hr strategy is and how you can perhaps
46:36
weave some of that into either an application process or the interview itself um and then
46:43
i think from the interview i always
46:49
think about or try to think about what are the technical skills you're going to get asked about
46:55
um you know whether it be administrative um excel skills um a bit problem
47:02
solving through to in an hr capacity you will get questions around
47:07
employee relations employment law um you might get questions around um you know how you handle difficult
47:15
situations like volumes of recruitment or all that sort of thing so you have to work out what your responses to those
47:21
for competency questions effectively and i call it like arrows to fire so yeah you can do
47:27
some brainstorming before an interview well what are my responses to some of
47:32
these questions now you know you might not get those questions but at least if you've tried to prepare some responses in your mind
47:39
um it certainly helps as you progress through your career and you need to keep these stories
47:45
developing your stories to tell um for interviews um and i think the more you prepare the
47:52
better you'll be so for example for virtual interviews i always do a
47:57
prep i always um do a prep interview on that technology so if it's an ms teams
48:03
interview or a zoom interview i will do a zoom interview with someone beforehand to make sure they're comfortable with
48:09
the syst for the system tech works um that they're sat comfortably
48:15
but they're looking at the camera so you know looking straight at the camera that sort of thing so i think that um you know prepare
48:22
prepare prepare really for interview um and the other side is also just try
48:27
to be yourself because quite a lot of people build up interviews to be
48:33
much more than it is you know because you can be so nervous of an interview and reality is
48:39
you're talking to people about your experiences and how you can meet their person specs so i think you
48:45
just have to try and just believe in yourself and and breathe through it you know it's difficult but you have to
48:52
try and keep control your nerves and take take your time with it but that that's that's it so
48:58
prepare um be yourself and um and bring confidence to it that's what i
49:04
would say thank you i'd like to say it's just so nice to see everybody connecting in the chat i can see there's some really good
49:10
quality conversation going on um going on there so really lovely to see people sharing their experiences
49:16
and got a few questions about the importance of qualifications uh um racky you mentioned the kind of
49:22
value that you can in the cipd what do you think people need qualifications to get into is it something you can do later
49:28
where do you start um kind of short courses versus longer film qualifications what are your thoughts on
49:35
on getting qualified there's a lot out there katie and
49:40
at the beginning i couldn't afford uh to do to any of these courses um so it's when i actually put my foot
49:46
in to my first role and uh as a coordinator and i started to understand the different elements
49:53
uh it was after my first year when i really understood that this was a professional
49:58
feel that i wanted to further develop in that's when through my uh performance review and my
50:05
development review conversations with my manager um i said you know i'd like to um
50:12
do one of the this qualifications will you support me and it was one of those things where i
50:17
showed loyalty to the the company and i showed an interest and i showed commitment and they saw that in me and then
50:24
supported me through my qualifications so i got lucky that in that sense um there
50:29
was a commitment to to continue to stay with the company um after completing the qualifications
50:35
i decided to do my cipd level seven um i had not had any human resource
50:41
management um prior education i did have a module at university
50:46
but one of the prerequisites for joining some of the courses are if you're already in a role and you've
50:52
shown a commitment to the profession then you can um be eligible to take the
50:57
level seven and and that's what i did it was a big piece of work uh along with full-time work uh i
51:04
remember finishing work on whatever time it was six seven and then staying in the office
51:10
a couple hours doing my doing my submissions doing my readings it's a big commitment
51:15
it's not something that um you do when you're at school this is a job and school full-time you
51:23
know 12 hours a week i was putting in just to make sure that i was taking
51:29
the most the best of what was coming out of the program you can join any program that's available but it all starts with your
51:36
understanding of how many hours you have to put in um to reap the rewards and benefits after
51:43
so it took me um i did the first year and then i stopped i needed a break
51:48
it was a lot there was a lot of information to digest i was new to hr i couldn't process everything all in my
51:54
first year so i took a few months out caught up with some of the readings and then after six months
52:00
i ended up going back in and doing my second year so i completed my level seven it took me about two and
52:07
a half years to do um some people do it quicker you can do it online distance learning there's so
52:12
many different companies and tools now that um give you the access to the cipd
52:19
materials and in the beginning i didn't really get it i thought it was one of those tick box exercises
52:24
i don't know if i should be saying this out loud having a crpd qualification under my belt
52:29
uh and now i know you know a couple years later how much more
52:35
it it means i have a network of people that if i come in and troubleshoot with
52:40
a certain issue i can call upon them and we can talk about it it's given me a whole wealth of
52:46
individuals that share the same passions and the same challenges i face every day in my work we're all going through the new rules of
52:53
what furlough means this that and the other and every day it's changing um but we're in it together
52:59
and the cfpd has given me the the uh the safety net that uh there are
53:05
other people uh doing the same work that i'm doing that we're just trying to make a difference and make people's lives
53:11
better at work so um i recommend a program i think it's worth talking to people that have
53:17
gone through the learning and development route or the human resource management route because there are various programs available to you
53:24
and they're available at different levels so if you'd like to learn more about the level seven
53:29
happy to share my experiences so reach out um and there's a lot of people out there
53:34
which i'm sure are happy to share their experiences with you too thank you and and just as like that we
53:40
do have a webinar specifically on cd calls um i think oh god i think it's on the 22nd of february so uh maybe one
53:47
of my colleagues could correct me if i'm if i'm wrong so if you want to ask any specific questions about
53:52
about the different kind of qualifications routes then um we'll have some of our people on that who can answer all of your
53:58
questions um i've only got about five minutes left i'm sorry um there's so many questions um
54:04
i'm getting a sense from these questions that some people are feeling quite down-hearted and that they've applied
54:11
for lots and lots of roles and they're finding it hard to even even get foot in and that could be
54:17
because they've got no work experience on their cv it could be because they're trying to get into hr from another area and they're finding it
54:23
quite closed i mean um natalie any advice on how you remain resilient because it is
54:30
really really tough out there i think we you've all shared some fantastic experiences but i'm sure
54:35
for a lot of people watching hopefully they're feeling a little bit buoyed up and that you know there's a
54:41
there's a lot of potential out there but it is it is tough it is tough i think there's a there's a
54:47
reason for everything and those rejections early on they're often steering you to the place
54:54
where you are going to be so you can choose to do one of two things
55:00
you can either throw in the towel and say hey charles not for me but you guys aren't going to do that because obviously you've stuck with us
55:05
this long today i'm sure you're not gonna throw in the towel but or you can look at it in the way that i
55:12
did so when i got my interview with woolworths and lorraine um she actually said to me
55:20
this is not just a job for you this is a career this is going to change your life and i
55:27
said that's exactly why i'm here because i want to change my life and i've been to
55:32
i think i'd been to nine other interviews that week and i'd got a no from every single one
55:37
i'd had hundreds of rejections but back then it was in writing so you had to wait a bit longer
55:44
so i'm showing my age now rocky but i used to get these rejection letters and i'm no word of a lie i'd get
55:51
about 10 15 a week and i thought no i'm not giving up i am going to go for
55:57
this i will get a career in hr and i'm going to make the damn sure that i make the most of it and
56:04
it's about that that's teaching you resilience so instead of getting a rejection email and
56:09
saying to yourself oh gosh why is this happening to me again why me why aren't i getting an opportunity why
56:16
is you know all these people that i'm on linkedin with why are they getting the opportunities why not me
56:22
think about it in a different way change that mindset and say right okay i didn't get that job you can go and ask
56:29
for feedback and i would strongly recommend you do that but also have a look at what can i do
56:36
better is it something that i need to adjust in what i'm am i not being detailed enough in my competency-based
56:43
answers is it that i have to display something a little bit more proactive
56:48
what recruiters and matthew correct me if i'm wrong what generally recruiters i speak to on a day-to-day basis and the
56:55
interviews that i do on a personal level is that i always look for things where things have gone
57:00
wrong i don't look for everything that has gone right i'm if it goes right great i think
57:07
that's amazing however how did you cope if something went wrong i'm really looking for that detail um
57:14
and i know that a lot of recruiters are as well so don't always plan examples that are
57:19
absolutely shining pinnacles of best practice what people want to see is actually if
57:24
things didn't go right how did it not go right and what did you do about it and how did you respond did you throw in the towel and say i'll
57:30
leave that to the business partner to mop up later or did you say right i rolled up my sleeves i had no
57:37
resources but i made the best of a bad situation that's what people want to see so if you
57:44
have that determination and you want to succeed success isn't going to come to you
57:49
you have to develop it and build it yourself and i learnt that very early on and that's what's put me in good stead
57:55
and kept me resilient in my job now so yeah i hope that helps a little bit but
58:00
keep going honestly don't give up if i can do it you know and 15 plus years later i'm sat
58:07
here doing it now and i've got my own business a very successful business now um i promise you anybody can do it
58:15
thank you um we are out of time just going to run over slightly because i'd like to ask everybody for kind of one
58:21
one top tip or one tape that you'd like the um the people watching there to take
58:26
away from this we've had so many questions i'm really sorry i haven't been able to answer a lot of them because they are quite quite detailed and specific but i tried
58:32
to draw out themes so hopefully that's been useful um but just to go around the panel and ask
58:37
for one one thing you'd like people to take away from from this last hour and matthew i'm going to start with you put you on the spot well sometimes it's
58:44
easier to go first um i think for people who haven't got experience of working in an hr
58:50
department you really have to demonstrate in your cvs and in your applications and
58:55
in your conversations your commitment to the hr profession or your interest and
59:00
commitment to it so it could be um you know networking with employment law
59:07
webinars a cass commitment to doing level three and level five cipd
59:14
in your enthusiasm for that sector and just trying to pull out as much
59:19
experience from any angle of hr and their employment cycle
59:24
so recruitment employee relations uh training hr administration just get as much as it
59:30
as you can into the cv and into your interviews as possible thank you velissa your one one takeaway um it would be to just
59:38
stay curious keep asking questions don't be afraid to ask people questions
59:44
any you know connections that you make um go to those webinars go to those
59:50
networking events virtual ones now and ask questions and listen thank you
59:56
rocky you're not in this alone surround yourself with not just one mentor but
1:00:02
many mentors from from different businesses and different functions
1:00:08
everyone anyone that you ask will be flattered if you ask them to be your mentor and for you to for them to support you
1:00:15
so go out there and get the support you need there's lots of people willing to give it thank you and natalie last but not
1:00:22
least first of all just to everybody in the chat i have been dipping in and out you're all amazing
1:00:29
and i promise you that you all have something to offer please don't compare yourself to other
1:00:35
people and what other people are doing or what points they are at their in careers
1:00:40
um really look at what you have to offer because i promise you you've got something different that
1:00:46
nobody else has and it took me so many years to build the confidence that you see
1:00:52
now to be able to believe in my own capabilities to be able to inspire
1:00:58
people and support those um you are the future of the profession every single one of you
1:01:04
here are the future of the profession and without that and without you guys keep going you know
1:01:10
you're having that ability to keep going and trusting in your own capabilities we wouldn't have a profession
1:01:16
so keep going surround yourself with the right people and trust in your abilities
1:01:22
leave the comparing elsewhere it's not welcome it's not awesome thank you um
1:01:29
so i'm gonna i'm just gonna have to wrap up there i'll just do some some quick notes and just to flag that we this is a series as i said so on
1:01:36
the 25th of january we've got another session with a i'm sure equally brilliant panel although this one was totally fantastic
1:01:41
so i don't know how we'll beat them but we'll try at least to equal them and that is specifically around kind of moving on and up so perhaps people who
1:01:48
are slightly further on in their in their career journey thinking about those getting those heads or four director
1:01:53
roles and then on the 8th of february we've got a session looking at particularly at career paths so there's loads of different career paths in the
1:01:58
profession so we're going to explore things like um going freelance like natalie starting your own business
1:02:04
whether you want to stay in a big corporate hr role and uh move on up the ladder whether you fancy giving interim um hr roles a try
1:02:12
so we've got that one as well and then the session on the qualifications but thank you so much to uh natalie of
1:02:18
lisa rocky and matthew really fantastic panel thank you everybody for all of your questions i'm sorry we didn't get
1:02:23
to answer them we will take them away and think about what content we can produce off the back of this um that would be
1:02:29
helpful for you in in taking those first steps in your hr career it's absolutely brilliant to see so many people
1:02:35
wanting to get into the profession and like natalie said please do please do keep going we understand that it's really really tough out there
1:02:42
but you've got a fantastic community and one of the great things about the people profession is how welcoming
1:02:47
and open and how willing people are to share um and people will will give up their time i think to
1:02:54
to give you some advice um and we're gonna just speak forever on the panel said i'm sure they'd be happy to connect with you
1:03:00
in some way if you want to follow up with anybody but that is it from us for now i'd like to wish you a good afternoon
1:03:07
and we will see you on the next session so thank you and goodbye thank you bye bye
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